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Depression is not always tears. I went through a depression a few times. Some of it was a "depression fallout" (if that is the name of it). The fallout is a chain reaction to one's mate or family member's depression. Exercise helps quite a bit, can be more effective than meds alone.

from whystinger :

You still out there and well?

from whystinger :

Decision time? I am surprised you are still interested enough to even confront. Do it, it may help you heal. If it ends the friendship, that may be good for you and give you the time to heal. All of this seems to eat at you and I don't think that is good. Most break-ups cannot be friends for a while, till some time passes and both parties heal. You shouldn't "be friends" until you can genuinely be happy that they are in a new relationship. Hugs.

from whystinger :

Of course he's hiding her from you and you from her. He isn't doing this to protect you, he is doing this to protect the chance he can have sex with you when she is not there. He may be "getting the sex he didn't get before" with you or he is greedy. I wonder what he says of you or if she doesn't know you exist. Also the thoughts of sex with each of you adds a bit of excitement that he is cheating, that he is loved perhaps, so he can risk his relationship with her. He knows that if she tosses him away, you will be there to help. For some reason I understand this and have been sort of through this many years ago (college).

from stepfordtart :

I lost your password! Would you send it again? s xx

from whystinger :

Well, knowing he is bi does change things, makes it not seem as bad. I have an ex-coworker who is bi. She tells anyone she is involved with and tells them her behaviors and gets an agreement up front, so there are no surprises. When she is in love, she is monogamous. Sounds like there is some greed involved, like his still coming on to you for sex the bi sex and the Russian bride. That is sort of greedy. Now if he claimed to be straight and would lie and hide it...

from whystinger :

The dating sites sound very different... cock sizes and "show me your tits" don't sound too appetizing. I know it has been a year, but have you worked on you during this year? I will take a year and work more on me. I caught up on your diary and all I can say is HOLY CRAP!!! Phone sex??? both of you or just him? and what is this "get his cocksucking fix?" He likes to suck cock or get his cock sucked. Still, it is pretty sad that he would hook up with another guy to get his dick sucked. That is not someone who is in love. Is your ex Bi or just so greedy he doesn't care who sucks his dick as long as it gets sucked. The real question is did he reciprocate? I find that disturbing on many levels. Is the Russian bride a Tranny??? LOL. An acquaintance from home married a "mail order" (internet order) Russian bride. She courted him online, hooked him and came over and married. Had promised tons and tons of sex. Got married to him and kept telling him she was nervous, then took off with her lover.

from whystinger :

:-) same with her and I. I still can be her friend. She may need to heal, but we'll see.

from whystinger :

You are used to the routine of talking to him. Sounds like you two (like us) are friends and probably can be friends but not lovers. With a friend, you can go home when things suck. Can't do that with a live in lover or spouse.

from whystinger :

I agree, it will be easier. She often "needs" my help with something, which takes my time. I am alive and well and I am thankful for that. Thanks!

from whystinger :

I know what you mean about the touch. I can't touch or it will send the wrong message and do more damage, but I am craving human touch too.

from whystinger :

Hmmm, interesting update. More similarities. I could be friends with her, harbor no ill will.

from whystinger :

I wish my wife would take the break up as well and as nice as you...

from whystinger :

"Clutter is often a physical manifestation of protecting oneself" I did not know that. My therapist would make references to the clutter such as "I think it gives you comfort" and never would elaborate, forcing me to think through it. This gives me a new perspective and I may now discard more things that I had planned. Thanks.

from whystinger :

I understand the 9/7 entry. Been there sort of. You will be loved again and probably deserve better. The M is actually good self care, so take care of you. I applaud you for the 9/13 entry of not going back upstairs. You are beginning to move on and that is really good. Don't let him cock block you. In other words, not monkeying around with him will make room in your life for another cock, one where you both can be in love.

from whystinger :

You are right, the comment of "who will pay my bills" struck me. I had offered in the past to help if she really went for a new job and I suspect she was looking for that now. I think she wants to quit her job and she still thinks she can retire. If she does that, I am totally screwed. She has big credit card bills because she does not manage her money and lives above her means. I can manage much better, but I too, have failed in this area. If I was on my own... I think I would do better.

from whystinger :

Yes, it can be done. Sometimes, it is unbelievably good and productive. I too, will be moving and starting over. I just have to get it right and work through some issues, like will she be going with me or not...

from whystinger :

So he drunk dialed you. I remember those days of my youth. This is easier said than done: there are worse things than being alone. For both you and your sister. When I left Honi a few years ago, I was concerned about a few things she "couldn't do" for herself. My Therapist told me "just watch and see how fast she steps up." Honi stepped up and stepped up big time. While I am not afraid of being alone, I look for reasons to leave, which can be just as paralyzing. Things in my circle are moving faster and I need to make some decisions... Do I have your correct email?

from whystinger :

No updates in a while?

from whystinger :

Ah, messages are back on and updates have been written! Great! Thanks for the note.

from whystinger :

Some of us fall for that for various reasons. I sort of fell for that when I was in my college days and a girl latched on to me. I had enough and wanted to break up. She would cry and I would take her back and be miserable. Friend gave "great"advice. Stick it out till summer vacation, then she will forget about you over the summer and move on. Did not happen. Break up, she would cry and I would take her back. I spoke to my Mom about it. She told me: You are not helping her by going back when she wants you to. Think of it this way Son, it you are going to cut off her finger, do it all at once, don't take it a fraction of an inch at a time. Next time, stick to your guns, it is more humane for her as well as you. Easy to say, difficult to do. I did follow that advice and still had a difficult time with her keeping coming back. That was because I had trained her I would come back if she cried enough. I stuck to my guns and the stomach aches stopped. Eventually she got the message. Don't be his door mat. Break it off cleanly. I need to take my own advice perhaps? Hugs

from whystinger :

"Ignorance is bliss" Well, not wanting to hear and not answering the phone is not ignorance my dear - it is you refusing to be a rug under his feet and I applaud you for not wanting to know. Bravo! Yes, I need to read more and catch up. Hugs

from stepfordtart :

"Lingered in the bedroom a lot, laying in the bed" W. T. actual F.???? Man, he has some nerve. Glad you didnt cave. s x

from jackthripper :

I am sorry for the lateness of my reply. But it warms my hear to know that there are still a few here. I hope you are well. Please don't worry about me. Somehow, I manage to keep going. I suspect I always will..

from whystinger :

Spending $ he doesn't have. Sounds like my wife. I wonder if it is depression from when his Dad died. Maybe he never recovered?

from stepfordtart :

Yay! s x

from whystinger :

Interesting updates since I last read... Started by missing him, now not particularly wanting him around. Not to be a prick, but the sooner you end it, then both of you will move on. It won't be easy, but the more swift the end, the less painful it will be. All of the fooling around you two have done, does make it more painful for you both. Something reminded me of a friend who went and brought back a Russian bride. She was so glad to be here. She came and married or maybe it was married, then came here. Did NOT consummate the marriage. He was patient. He waited. She learned the town and two weeks later she left him. He's married to a Russian bride who took off and never slept with him. Oh she fucked him, but figuratively only...

from whystinger :

Awesome. I will respond later (i hope).

from whystinger :

If you didn't like it when you were with him, why did you stay? I wonder why my wife stays? The sucky thing about breaking up is when you don't cut the ties, it seems to hurt more. For her, when I left it hurt. I didn't call, didn't visit. When I left, I knew I HAD to leave or get sucked back in. I also felt that if I cut ties, severed them for once and all, it would hurt, but hurt less than the continual severing of the ties. I wonder why she stays, but I also wonder why I stay. I can list many reasons why I stay, but alone, they don't seem adequate

from whystinger :

I have to say thank you. It helps me understand a bit.

from whystinger :

Our part Siamese gets pissed when I have to go on the road. I get home, he is happy, excited. After a while, he will bite me HARD, drawing blood, then he is fine. What a prick! He was supposed to be her cat, the once she always wanted, but he chose me. After I moved out, he became closer with her and now he spends a lot of time on her neck at night. So... you can do a few things. Ask the STBX (soon to be ex) to do something. Other than that, you can try giving him more attention, combing him, playing with him. Try some catnip. That used to calm our old Maine Coon. Cat is unhappy or even pissed about something. Maybe it is that was STBX is treating him? Is he mean to the cat when you are not around? If I think of something else, I will send it...

from whystinger :

Wow, it probably is guilt and he may be trying to suck you back in. Have his cake and eat it too. You are a sure thing, he can get some sex perhaps, while he is risking things for this internet chick. Beware and take care of yourself. It is so easy to say these words or write them, but it is difficult to do them (me).

from whystinger :

When I left before everyone told me it would hurt terribly and for a long, long time. I left and the next day I really felt like shit. Really bad. I took my personal laptop to work and I felt ill. I went to lunch alone, where there was free wireless. I began reading my diary and no longer felt bad. Within a few days people were telling me I was a different person, happier, had a spring in my feet. I agree with what you are saying. How are you doping?

from whystinger :

I want to tell you to get out or get him out. I want to tell you that his feeling guilty does not means he cares. I can't do this because I need to go these things too. For whatever it is worth, I have known a few who have taken 'Russian brides" and have been let down. Get married, they come here, refuse to consummate the marriage and take off. He may be head over heels for her, but he may be set up for a loss.

from whystinger :

And I have been too busy to catch up....

from whystinger :

No worries, no hurries, just curious.

from whystinger :

I forgot to ask - did you get my email?

from whystinger :

She will have to learn for herself. She may have to lose all before she decides to change. I can't always understand why I stay.

from stepfordtart :

Hey! Im all caught up now. I know that its hurting you like a knife in the heart, but Im kind of glad that you are seeing the bad things he does now. You deserve better than a racist alcoholic who calls you names, dont you? s x PS the answer is "hell, yeh!"

from whystinger :

Sometimes after your comments, I wish she could talk to you. The couples therapist gave her mixed messages about the importance of sex. That is one of the reasons I want to go to a different couples therapist.

from stepfordtart :

Hey girl! Can I get a password? Will delete it immediately if you leave it in my notes/comments. Thanks s x

from se7enchance :

You don't know me, but random chance brought me to your journal. I find your writing easy and captivating, and the subject matter resonates with a terrible accuracy within me, also. You'll make it, but I know how debilitating it is. Thank you for writing and being. Be well.

from whystinger :

I hope you have another great night of sleep. Don't let him get you down or ruin your mood. I think he is doing you a favor by breaking up. I don't know why, but I think you are accepting more than your fair share of the blame.

from adaorardor :

On days like today, you go to bed, you let yourself rest, and understand that emotions have their own time. You are grieving. If it were the death of a parent rather than a relationship, nobody would expect you to go on so soon.

from whystinger :

Friendships - this is where our relationships differ. She too wants to be together 24/7. She seemed to have numerous friends before we married, but not afterwards. I started to realize that was an area she may have changed with. Her and her ex had plenty of friends (I think/thought). It wasn't as if she wanted to be available for what I wanted to do, but she wants ME to be available for what SHE wants to do, however, she expects me to be able to read her mind and know what she wants and she shouldn't have to tell me. I am sorry, I am not a mind-reader. While in a relationship, we should both pursue some separate hobbies and it IS cool to spend time on each other's hobbies, even in I don't enjoy her hobby, I can/should/will spend time with her doing it because I enjoy her company. When it comes to the other way, she WON"T spend time with me and my hobbies if she is not interested. Shit, I took up beading in order to do something fun with her. I was not into beads and jewelry, but did it so we could spend time on something she enjoys. That was healthy behavior, but her refusing to spend time on my hobbies is not a healthy thing in my marriage. I sometimes wonder if my wife is a hypochondriac. She does have a lot of health issues and seems to love talking about them, but does less to face those problems. She "grooms" me to focus on the health problems. "I NEED you to look at my back, something (usually a pimple) is really causing me discomfort. Find it and fix it. The weird thing is, she used to love having me scan her back with a magnifying glass, searching for microscopic black-heads and then squeezing them out before sex. It was like I was a monkey picking fleas off of her. "No pick pimples (somethings imaginary), no sex." One last thing: she is the one who stopped the couples therapy. She does NOT want to confront her own issues. What a great entry, it helps.

from whystinger :

Holy crap, do I respond here or send you a message? I'll put it here. This one entry on sex is where you and I relate. There was always something missing when we had sex. I could never put my finger on it and still sometimes cannot. Orgasms are difficult for her and I don't know if she ever gave herself one. I wonder now if she withholds her orgasm on purpose or not. Keeps that intimacy from me, or is it the medicine and health issues? While she is a huge cuddled, the cuddling after is missing and lately she drops a pillow between us in bed and cuddles with the cats. I loved the post-sex cuddle. The thing that made me feel loved. To think of it, she also has cut out a lot of the kissing. She sometimes encourages me to "go ahead and finish, don't hold back." She would never "finish me with her hand or mouth. Once (recently) while I tried a few different things to ignite a fire, I asked "where do you want me to come" and she did not understand. When I said "inside you or on your belly," it seemed that the statement had made her nervous. She raised her voice and seemed angry almost. I should say she has never given me an orgasm with her mouth or hand. It seems as if she doesn't know how. Instead of stroking me, she pulls on it. I have never really been able to teach her how either, which puzzles me. That intimate connection you desire has been missing from our lovemaking and that is one thing I want back, one thing I miss. My therapist says "sex is how you express your love and this is her rejecting your love in your mind." Funny, because she always tells me how much she loves me, but I seem to doubt her. I do agree that depression does fuck with one's libido. The medicines for depression can be a lifesaver, but they too, fuck with one's libido. Because of problems from her depression, I too tell into a depression and had to be on medicines. This gave me a taste of how the meds can kill the sex. I remember how I couldn't orgasm while on the anti-depressants while masturbating. It took longer when with her too. Sometimes it was easier to forgo masturbation. Heck, she didn't want sex, I couldn't cum...

from adaorardor :

It sounds like he is not so much a person who would have benefited from therapy. Like as not you would have made all the sacrifices anyway -- this way you didn't waste the money.

from whystinger :

Wow, interesting note and it got my attention. I would love to know which entries you felt that you knew what she was feeling, feel free to share. I always wondered what she may have been thinking/feeling when some of that went on. Everyone told me of the great pain I would feel when I would leave and how it would last a long, long time. That first night I left was horrible, I didn't sleep much... in an old sleeping bag on the dirty floor of a cheap apartment I rented. I remember the bottoms of my feet were black so I went to the store and bought some stuff to clean and got down on hands and knees and scrubbed... Next day, I felt like shit then at lunch I took my computer to a cafe and began reading from the first year of my diary. I felt better and knew I had done the right thing for me. It made things so very much better by leaving. I do love her, but things can be so difficult. I wish I could divorce her and keep her as a friend, but that is rarely possible. I also believe she may not love me, but would rather have me around and not be by herself...

from whystinger :

I read your recent entry and scanned (my eyeballs) through your entries. First (I'm short on time) so sorry I did not read completely and slowly through your entries. There is a limited amount of entries, is there another diary I should read? if so, email me. On the recent entry, did he WRITE you how he felt or did he tell you these things? I am prone to agree with Stepfordtart, sounds like he he is a shit bag, especially when I read some of your other entries. "No woman should cry after sex" bothers me. Nobody should cry after sex, unless they are tears of joy. Sounds like there have been some issues and ending any relationship is painful, even if you want out too. You mentioned that you wanted to this diary to be the start of something beautiful. Remember, one door closes, another opens (cliche, I know) so ending this relationship may be the start of something beautiful for you. This diary may be transitional too. I have cleared out clutter in my life, which makes room for change, perhaps this relationship is cluttering up your life? In any event, all this is easier said than done. I would consider asking him to leave and move out, unless you have already decided to (your packing). My thought is, staying will not do you any good, even if it is "convenient." I am fired up by that last entry and perhaps I should not leave this until I calm a bit... Hugs to you.

from stepfordtart :

What a shitbag. And a shitbag who is not man enough to rubbish you to your face. You can do better. I am certain of it. s x

from adaorardor :

That's it -- you're seeing now that the lies are really lies and you can do better in life. You will get through this. You will be amazing when you come out the other end.

from whystinger :

send me an email and I'll send the password to my diary. I don't always check email if I am busy at work, but it is whystinger"at"yahoo.com

from whystinger :

He broke up with you, how is it rude that you packed on his birthday? I don't see that as rude, considering he has a new girlfriend. I think you were being smart and trying to move on. I salute you for that. I need to read more before I comment, but from what I see, you owe him nothing.

from whystinger :

I stumbled on your diary and only read the last two entries. Not sure who initiated the split and what you feel, but you both have a long road ahead. Did he want sex? Maybe, maybe not. Break ups get the emotions flowing and it is not uncommon for those breaking up to have sex - because a lot of times they talk more than they did in the past, old feelings wax and wane. He may be seeing comfort too, even if he initiated the divorce/split. It is hard to live together while trying to split. Do what is best for you. I hope I can come back and read more.

from stepfordtart :

the 'norm' for breakups is what's right for YOU, not what other people expect it to be. If your current situation is helping (both of) you to work through your problems and to come out the other side reasonably sane human beings, then its nobody's business to judge. s x

from spiralish :

*seconding what adaorardor said*

from stepfordtart :

Eurgh. 'For old times sake' sex. Kind of unfair on both of you, I think. Kind of inevitable if youre still sharing a bed tho (and I can remember doing the same myself, years ago). Not worth beating yourself up over tho - it happened, bits of it were good and felt like 'before', but let it go now, huh? It didnt fix anything, just prolonged it. Gah. Its easy to dish out the wise words from this side of the Atlantic but I know its way more real and raw as hell when youre in it. For the sake of your future dignity, try to stay civil and (if at all possible) keep your distance. Diaryland is with you, girl! s x

from adaorardor :

He sounds like a sociopath. It is seriously rude to just... giggle at your computer with your new lover when your old one still lives with you (and I know this from experience, watching my mother suffer).

from stepfordtart :

Hey Michelle. Its tough when he's moving on but you havent finished loving him yet - its the mis-match that hurts so much, when you are still thinking that youre both in sync. I am certain that you are still desirable and capable of giving and receiving the best kind of love (with extra weight on you or not, btw!) but I can see how that could be hard to believe when you have spent quite a period of time clinging on by your fingertips to something that was crumbling away. Ive done that 'split up, but still living together' thing - its horrific. The sooner you can bail on that the better. *thinking of you* s x

from stepfordtart :

Hey! Sorry to hear how things are for you right now, and hoping you find a way through it. s x

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